Piotr Tkacz: For a start I
want to ask how you got interested in vinyls, because, I assume, for
someone with background in fine arts it is quite different than for
someone with background in music?
Philip Jeck:
Yeah, as you said my background, my training, was in visual arts but
I've always loved sounds, different forms of music. As a teenager I
learnt a little bit guitar and stuff but it was never enough to play
what I wanted. I had some talent, I was able to draw and paint so I
that's why I went to art college. So my way into sound was actually
trough djing, I went to New York in 1979 and went to clubs and stuff
and saw those fantastic djs mixing records. I thought I would like to
do that, so I bought quite a few 12" singles and started by sort
of copying people like Larry Levan or Walter Gibbons. Not so much the
hip-hop stuff, like Grandmaster Flash, altough I like that, but more
the stuff like extended versions, quite trance'y. So that's how I
started using vinyls, record players. And from this point, '79
onwards, I was living in London and knew a lot of artist, musicians,
improvisers, with electronics also, people doing theatre - that were
people I was around and working with. I started using record players
with dance pieces, theatre pieces and sometimes improvising with
other musicians. So I shifted away from disco, four on the floor
stuff, developing my own way of working. I was using records from
many styles, not just dance but classical, folk, whatever I came
across.
PT: Were you aware of
Christian Marclay then, because he was doing his stuff in New York
then...
PJ:
Yes! When I started I didn't know about him but very soon someone
asked: "Oh, do you know Marclay's stuff?". I had some
recordings of him and listened to it. I'd actually met him in about
'82, he came to Britain, was doing a show and I've seen what he was
doing. For me it was really good, not for copying, but seeing him
what he actually did with the vinyl, namely to feel that: yes, the
possibilities are really endless. In a way that was an encouregement
that I got from him, not to play like him or anything, but to think:
actually you can do anything with this.
PT: And those improvisers
in London - who were there?
PJ: People
that were in London Musicians Collective, people I knew from there.
With two of them we were working regularly as a trio. Really
important thing for my development was work with choreographer Laurie
Booth, from '84 onwards, we did a lot of touring. Then he got some
money to have a company, so I felt we were very lucky because we got
money to tour and develop what we did. Over those years I've worked
with him I developed a lot because I was playing so regularly. So
yeah, that was really important part of my development.
And actually trough Laurie
I met Lol Sargent with whom I've done "Vinyl Requiem", he
was employed by Laurie in one big dance piece to do visuals. We got
on well and we were talking...it was at that time that in record
shops the cds section just got bigger than vinyl section. There was
this change from analog to digital format, so we were talking about
this, it was quite an important change. I grew up, you know, I bought
my first records in early sixties, I grew up with 7" singles. So
we were talking about marking some change, started to work on piece
which turned to be "Vinyl Requiem". Not that vinyl has
died, because people are still using it, but there was this sense
of....You feel you could almost do "CD Requiem" now because
everybody's got their mp3s players, there is big shift. A lot of
people don't even go and buy music anymore from shop, they download.
PT: So would you say that
working with vinyl is nostalgic?
PJ:
Yeah, it's got to be in there, I mean - I don't conciously think: oh,
this is a nostalgic work. But of course it is - it is like a record
of the past, recordings of things that go by. And for me this sound
of crackle, when you put needle on the record is still very evocative
and all those things that are stored in each one of those records can
be very evocative. I feel like I'm recycling things, this records
usually were thrown away, if I didn't used them they would be in a
dustbin or recycle, melted down to use for something else. In the way
there is almost ghost of the past that I'm trying to resurect, to get
something new out of them. Also record players that I use are old,
this is for the same reason - they have this sound, very lo-fi, like
there is something that is put between the sound that is coming from
the groove and sound that goes to the speakers. This add some history
to the sound.
PT: What I find
fascinating is that vinyl could have a longer history, because it
could be destroyed in some amount and still...
PJ:
Still work, yeah...
PT: And this history is
like written....
PJ: Exactly,
all those scratches are part of the history, like on sculpture and
stuff there is patina of scratches, I think it is true sonicwise with
records, there is its history, all those marks, maybe you spilled
some coffee on it or whatever.
PT: Do you know Marina
Rosenfeld? I was talking with her once and she said about her
approach: she is using some kind of dublate which destroys trough
using....
PJ: ...very
quickly, they don't last long because vinyl is really soft. I
sometimes use them and you play them for one hour or less, you put
your hands on a record and they are all black, you know, this dust.
They only last, I don't know, you can play them for like 20 hours and
then the sound is all the same trough, whatever it was at the
beginning.
PT: She also find it
interesting not to have the same sound twice, because once it is
played it is changed.
I also wanted to ask how
would you describe the difference in the reception of your works in
art-world, exhibition context and those on records?
PJ: Well, I think there is a big difference between art-world, visual art world
and music world. Art-world is actually very small in comparison to
music and because of that there are in the way fewer people who
dictate, you know, they run galleries or buy work. Music world is
bigger, altough is not so big, still bigger than art-world. I think
that amount of people who have seen any of my visual work compared to
those who have heard my recorded work...there is no comparison. But I
still enjoy, I don't do so much installations or visual works as I
would like to, but most of my time is taken by playing.
There is much more work
which goes into visual works, specifically if it is big, but I'm glad
I still do both.
PT: Do you think
presenting audio material in exhibition is a good idea? Because it
could be difficult for people.
PJ:
Yeah, it could. You know, I've contributed to some soundworks
exhibitions, with only visual material it is not a big problem,
sometimes it could be, but when in one big gallery you have 5-6
different soundworks they interfere with each other and it is very
hard to hear each work individually. In a way you need your own room
when you do stuff with sound because you want them to hear what they
should hear. It could be interesting when things interfere but still
it is a drawback. I've taken part in such things and it was pretty
difficult so it often ended that somebody gives you your own room.
But even then, if someone has loud installation next door it still
would be heard.
PT: And also from the
perspective of the receiver it is very different, because you can
take a look on the picture but sound needs more time.
PJ:
Exactly and also - if you don't look at the picture you don't see it
and if you don't face the speakers you still hear sound. Even if you
leave the room, you can still hear. They are really different things
and I think there are problems. I was at exhibition in Liverpool
where there are 5 video pieces, not necesarily soundworks, but with
sound of course and when you are in the room there is kind of mess,
all those sounds together. Sound of the room is really bad, people
hadn't thought about that: what's gonna happen when you put 5 videos
in one gallery. People in galleries maybe want to have some
soundworks but they don't understand what problems there could be.
PT: In your works, as far
as I can tell or remember, you don't often use voices.
PJ:
I occassionaly do, every now and then there are some voices. I think
it become very specific if you have voices and if there are words -
they can have some meaning for some people that maybe I don't want, I
might prefer to have it more ambigous. I find it harder to work with
voices than with instrumental sounds. Generally it would be a choral
than a solo singer, maybe occasionaly there will be some spoken word
but no - I don't use too much voices.
PT: Today I was listening
to "Songs for Europe" and I had funny situation because
there is a moment when someone is shouting or calling and I thought
that it was my brother who came back and is shouting to me that he is
back...I also like the idea for this album that you are kind of
broadcasting those songs for Europe from not so central point of the
continent...
PJ:
Yeah, from Turkey and Greece.
PT: Because Istanbul could
be seen as a gate to Europe...
PJ:
Yes that's right, it's like on the one side of river it is Asia and
on other it is Europe.
PT: I also wanted to ask,
I'm interested in this recording but haven't heard it, about album
with Jaki Liebezeit and Jah Wobble ["Live in Leuven"]. How
it came about?
PJ:
Few years before I got invited to play with Jah Wobble's band Deep
Space. I was introduced to him by Clive Bell, he is also the one of
those musicians from London Musicians Collective I had played with.
He actually came to Liverpool, where I live, to interview me for The
Wire magazine and after that he gave me a cd of Jah Wobble. I was
enjoying it so asked him about this and he said: yes, it's good, we
are doing stuff, touring a lot. And a week later he called me up and
said he was talking with Wobble about me and he got quite interested
so I should send him one of my cds. So I did, and I didn't hear
anything for months and months and I completely forgot about whole
thing. Then, one day, I got a call and it was Jah Wobble, he was
having a tour and asked me if I would be interested in being in the
band. I said: yeah, of course, I toured with them, played on the next
cd - "Five Beat". And then people from the festival in
Leuven e-mailed me and were like: we have seen you work with Wobble,
how would like to maybe do a duo? So I said I will contact him, he
wasn't so keen on just a duo, but funnily enough, before this he was
working on someone's else record as a session bass player and also
Jaki Liebezeit was there so he suggested a trio. I e-mailed back and
they were like: oh, yes, even better. I have never met Liebezeit
until the day of the concert, it was recorded, then Jah Wobble edited
it. We also played in Liverpool, when it was European Capital of
Culture [in 2008].
PT: Could you tell
something about working with Jacob Kirkegaard?
PJ:
I met him at Moers festival, in Germany, I was invited there, there
was a thing called Electronic Lounge or something like that. There
were, I don't remember, 7 or 8 of us in this building, working with
scores and stuff. There was me, there was Jacob, eRikM, Marcus
Schmickler and others. Again, that was the first time I met Jacob, we
got on well and on the last evening we did a duo concert, luckily it
was recorded, Jacob took it home, edited a little bit and sent it to
me. I remembered it being good but then when I listened I thought it
is even better then I remembered. So I sent it to Touch, asked what
they think, they liked it and decided to put it out. This was kind of
instant thing, we really get on well together. Well, I hadn't seen
Jacob much during last years, he is busy doing recordings, specific
projects he is working on.
PT: Troughout your career
you have been rather loyal to Touch...
PJ:
Well, they've been good to me - that's why, I had some problems with
1 or 2 labels in the past. But Touch, for me it's really good
relationship.
PT: Also, I think many
people see it as a kind of quality sign.
PJ:
Yes, for me it is. In a way it is very small, they don't release
much, which is good - they only release what they like, it is
consistent. It always looks good, Jon [Wozencroft] often doing covers
and stuff, I like this style of photography. And they take care of
what they release, they are very clear about their sales, I get
regular money from them, so, you know, I'm not gonna change this
(laughs).
PT: In a live context, how
much improvisation there is in your playing?
PJ:
It varies from time to time, there is quite a lot, but I wouldn't say
it's all improvisation. There are things which result I know, but
then things gonna happen, I go to places I have never been before. It
depends...
PT: Like, for example: you
have a record and know which moment you gonna play from it?
PJ:
Yeah, I've got marks, that's one thing I learnt from Marclay - to put
stickers, so I know what sound it gonna be.
PT: But there is nothing
like an order of things?
PJ:
No, I only know where I start. I only have so many records with me so
it is the material I'm gonna use, so I know more or less the sounds,
but it still can go somewhere else.
PT: What is your
setup?
PJ:
There are effects in the mixer, guitar delay pedal. I have casio
sk-1, I sample as I play, make loops and you can play harmonics, you
know, octaves and so on.