Piotr Tkacz: For a start I want to ask how you got interested in vinyls, because, I assume, for someone with background in fine arts it is quite different than for someone with background in music?
Philip Jeck: Yeah, as you said my background, my training, was in visual arts but I've always loved sounds, different forms of music. As a teenager I learnt a little bit guitar and stuff but it was never enough to play what I wanted. I had some talent, I was able to draw and paint so I that's why I went to art college. So my way into sound was actually trough djing, I went to New York in 1979 and went to clubs and stuff and saw those fantastic djs mixing records. I thought I would like to do that, so I bought quite a few 12" singles and started by sort of copying people like Larry Levan or Walter Gibbons. Not so much the hip-hop stuff, like Grandmaster Flash, altough I like that, but more the stuff like extended versions, quite trance'y. So that's how I started using vinyls, record players. And from this point, '79 onwards, I was living in London and knew a lot of artist, musicians, improvisers, with electronics also, people doing theatre - that were people I was around and working with. I started using record players with dance pieces, theatre pieces and sometimes improvising with other musicians. So I shifted away from disco, four on the floor stuff, developing my own way of working. I was using records from many styles, not just dance but classical, folk, whatever I came across.
PT: Were you aware of Christian Marclay then, because he was doing his stuff in New York then...
PJ: Yes! When I started I didn't know about him but very soon someone asked: "Oh, do you know Marclay's stuff?". I had some recordings of him and listened to it. I'd actually met him in about '82, he came to Britain, was doing a show and I've seen what he was doing. For me it was really good, not for copying, but seeing him what he actually did with the vinyl, namely to feel that: yes, the possibilities are really endless. In a way that was an encouregement that I got from him, not to play like him or anything, but to think: actually you can do anything with this.
PT: And those improvisers in London - who were there?
PJ: People that were in London Musicians Collective, people I knew from there. With two of them we were working regularly as a trio. Really important thing for my development was work with choreographer Laurie Booth, from '84 onwards, we did a lot of touring. Then he got some money to have a company, so I felt we were very lucky because we got money to tour and develop what we did. Over those years I've worked with him I developed a lot because I was playing so regularly. So yeah, that was really important part of my development.
And actually trough Laurie I met Lol Sargent with whom I've done "Vinyl Requiem", he was employed by Laurie in one big dance piece to do visuals. We got on well and we were talking...it was at that time that in record shops the cds section just got bigger than vinyl section. There was this change from analog to digital format, so we were talking about this, it was quite an important change. I grew up, you know, I bought my first records in early sixties, I grew up with 7" singles. So we were talking about marking some change, started to work on piece which turned to be "Vinyl Requiem". Not that vinyl has died, because people are still using it, but there was this sense of....You feel you could almost do "CD Requiem" now because everybody's got their mp3s players, there is big shift. A lot of people don't even go and buy music anymore from shop, they download.
PT: So would you say that working with vinyl is nostalgic?
PJ: Yeah, it's got to be in there, I mean - I don't conciously think: oh, this is a nostalgic work. But of course it is - it is like a record of the past, recordings of things that go by. And for me this sound of crackle, when you put needle on the record is still very evocative and all those things that are stored in each one of those records can be very evocative. I feel like I'm recycling things, this records usually were thrown away, if I didn't used them they would be in a dustbin or recycle, melted down to use for something else. In the way there is almost ghost of the past that I'm trying to resurect, to get something new out of them. Also record players that I use are old, this is for the same reason - they have this sound, very lo-fi, like there is something that is put between the sound that is coming from the groove and sound that goes to the speakers. This add some history to the sound.
PT: What I find fascinating is that vinyl could have a longer history, because it could be destroyed in some amount and still...
PJ: Still work, yeah...
PT: And this history is like written....
PJ: Exactly, all those scratches are part of the history, like on sculpture and stuff there is patina of scratches, I think it is true sonicwise with records, there is its history, all those marks, maybe you spilled some coffee on it or whatever.
PT: Do you know Marina Rosenfeld? I was talking with her once and she said about her approach: she is using some kind of dublate which destroys trough using....
PJ: ...very quickly, they don't last long because vinyl is really soft. I sometimes use them and you play them for one hour or less, you put your hands on a record and they are all black, you know, this dust. They only last, I don't know, you can play them for like 20 hours and then the sound is all the same trough, whatever it was at the beginning.
PT: She also find it interesting not to have the same sound twice, because once it is played it is changed.
I also wanted to ask how would you describe the difference in the reception of your works in art-world, exhibition context and those on records?
PJ: Well, I think there is a big difference between art-world, visual art world and music world. Art-world is actually very small in comparison to music and because of that there are in the way fewer people who dictate, you know, they run galleries or buy work. Music world is bigger, altough is not so big, still bigger than art-world. I think that amount of people who have seen any of my visual work compared to those who have heard my recorded work...there is no comparison. But I still enjoy, I don't do so much installations or visual works as I would like to, but most of my time is taken by playing.
There is much more work which goes into visual works, specifically if it is big, but I'm glad I still do both.
PT: Do you think presenting audio material in exhibition is a good idea? Because it could be difficult for people.
PJ: Yeah, it could. You know, I've contributed to some soundworks exhibitions, with only visual material it is not a big problem, sometimes it could be, but when in one big gallery you have 5-6 different soundworks they interfere with each other and it is very hard to hear each work individually. In a way you need your own room when you do stuff with sound because you want them to hear what they should hear. It could be interesting when things interfere but still it is a drawback. I've taken part in such things and it was pretty difficult so it often ended that somebody gives you your own room. But even then, if someone has loud installation next door it still would be heard.
PT: And also from the perspective of the receiver it is very different, because you can take a look on the picture but sound needs more time.
PJ: Exactly and also - if you don't look at the picture you don't see it and if you don't face the speakers you still hear sound. Even if you leave the room, you can still hear. They are really different things and I think there are problems. I was at exhibition in Liverpool where there are 5 video pieces, not necesarily soundworks, but with sound of course and when you are in the room there is kind of mess, all those sounds together. Sound of the room is really bad, people hadn't thought about that: what's gonna happen when you put 5 videos in one gallery. People in galleries maybe want to have some soundworks but they don't understand what problems there could be.
PT: In your works, as far as I can tell or remember, you don't often use voices.
PJ: I occassionaly do, every now and then there are some voices. I think it become very specific if you have voices and if there are words - they can have some meaning for some people that maybe I don't want, I might prefer to have it more ambigous. I find it harder to work with voices than with instrumental sounds. Generally it would be a choral than a solo singer, maybe occasionaly there will be some spoken word but no - I don't use too much voices.
PT: Today I was listening to "Songs for Europe" and I had funny situation because there is a moment when someone is shouting or calling and I thought that it was my brother who came back and is shouting to me that he is back...I also like the idea for this album that you are kind of broadcasting those songs for Europe from not so central point of the continent...
PJ: Yeah, from Turkey and Greece.
PT: Because Istanbul could be seen as a gate to Europe...
PJ: Yes that's right, it's like on the one side of river it is Asia and on other it is Europe.
PT: I also wanted to ask, I'm interested in this recording but haven't heard it, about album with Jaki Liebezeit and Jah Wobble ["Live in Leuven"]. How it came about?
PJ: Few years before I got invited to play with Jah Wobble's band Deep Space. I was introduced to him by Clive Bell, he is also the one of those musicians from London Musicians Collective I had played with. He actually came to Liverpool, where I live, to interview me for The Wire magazine and after that he gave me a cd of Jah Wobble. I was enjoying it so asked him about this and he said: yes, it's good, we are doing stuff, touring a lot. And a week later he called me up and said he was talking with Wobble about me and he got quite interested so I should send him one of my cds. So I did, and I didn't hear anything for months and months and I completely forgot about whole thing. Then, one day, I got a call and it was Jah Wobble, he was having a tour and asked me if I would be interested in being in the band. I said: yeah, of course, I toured with them, played on the next cd - "Five Beat". And then people from the festival in Leuven e-mailed me and were like: we have seen you work with Wobble, how would like to maybe do a duo? So I said I will contact him, he wasn't so keen on just a duo, but funnily enough, before this he was working on someone's else record as a session bass player and also Jaki Liebezeit was there so he suggested a trio. I e-mailed back and they were like: oh, yes, even better. I have never met Liebezeit until the day of the concert, it was recorded, then Jah Wobble edited it. We also played in Liverpool, when it was European Capital of Culture [in 2008].
PT: Could you tell something about working with Jacob Kirkegaard?
PJ: I met him at Moers festival, in Germany, I was invited there, there was a thing called Electronic Lounge or something like that. There were, I don't remember, 7 or 8 of us in this building, working with scores and stuff. There was me, there was Jacob, eRikM, Marcus Schmickler and others. Again, that was the first time I met Jacob, we got on well and on the last evening we did a duo concert, luckily it was recorded, Jacob took it home, edited a little bit and sent it to me. I remembered it being good but then when I listened I thought it is even better then I remembered. So I sent it to Touch, asked what they think, they liked it and decided to put it out. This was kind of instant thing, we really get on well together. Well, I hadn't seen Jacob much during last years, he is busy doing recordings, specific projects he is working on.
PT: Troughout your career you have been rather loyal to Touch...
PJ: Well, they've been good to me - that's why, I had some problems with 1 or 2 labels in the past. But Touch, for me it's really good relationship.
PT: Also, I think many people see it as a kind of quality sign.
PJ: Yes, for me it is. In a way it is very small, they don't release much, which is good - they only release what they like, it is consistent. It always looks good, Jon [Wozencroft] often doing covers and stuff, I like this style of photography. And they take care of what they release, they are very clear about their sales, I get regular money from them, so, you know, I'm not gonna change this (laughs).
PT: In a live context, how much improvisation there is in your playing?
PJ: It varies from time to time, there is quite a lot, but I wouldn't say it's all improvisation. There are things which result I know, but then things gonna happen, I go to places I have never been before. It depends...
PT: Like, for example: you have a record and know which moment you gonna play from it?
PJ: Yeah, I've got marks, that's one thing I learnt from Marclay - to put stickers, so I know what sound it gonna be.
PT: But there is nothing
like an order of things?
PJ: No, I only know where I start. I only have so many records with me so it is the material I'm gonna use, so I know more or less the sounds, but it still can go somewhere else.
PT: What is your
setup?
PJ: There are effects in the mixer, guitar delay pedal. I have casio sk-1, I sample as I play, make loops and you can play harmonics, you know, octaves and so on.
